Voices from the pew and beyond

Following are words of 25-40 yr olds who have chosen to share about their experience with the SDA church (via a survey question).  These people may attend church regularly, irregularly or not at all. Most of their words have not been changed apart from grammatical corrections or slight changes to protect identities. Here is a selection from the 164 responses.

Warning: If you are a churchgoer, you may be discouraged by some things you read. I’ve listed these experiences to give a voice to those who’re disconnected from church. Browsing through some of the comments may also enlighten you to some issues which you can address. The church (i.e. people) have made mistakes and will always be in need to stay focused on living life as Jesus asked us to.

My experience is that everyone is very nice and welcoming when I am completely involved in church ministries. However since ‘disappearing’ from the church scene for the last two years nobody has come looking for me or has been interested in what has happened to me. It makes me wonder why i bothered in the first place, it has felt to me that the church is happy to use all my time and energy but not interested in my actual welfare as a member of the congregation. So I have put my self to good use in broader community projects and volunteer work.

While i know there are faults within the church (local and conference) my constant prayer is that I will be able to look beyond them, and assist others in being able to do the same. We need to support and nurture each other, not criticise and tear each other down.

I feel a strong desire to connect with people who are struggling with their faith, particularly those who have perhaps been part of the Adventist family in the past. I am deeply saddened by the pain that many carry that has been caused by ‘welling meaning’ Adventists.

I have found A.A. meetings to be more spiritual than SDA church. Secular people are more accepting than Christians.
SDA’s are scared of differences …. Jesus embraced people who were different.
SDA’s are exclusive …. Jesus was inclusive.
SDA’s pride them selves in ’serving’ their community … but struggle to accept the same community ‘just as they are’ and won’t baptise them until they change their behaviour and beliefs. Where is unconditional acceptance in that????

Although now I don’t see myself a Christian, I am always amazed by the wisdom that comes from the Bible. Its great to see issues in life do not only have to be applicable to Christians. It makes sense for everyday living that can be appreciated by all.

Since primary school, I have been an active participant in the church. From a young age, I was drawn to God and had a deep sense of the spiritual. This led to my baptism at the age of 13, although I longed to be baptised from the age of 9. In the last 5 or 6 years however, there has been a gradual withdrawal from the degree of involvement in the church. This has been largely due to the state of my health and difficulties in coming to terms with my past.

I grew up in a God fearing family where I felt the pressure to be perfect all the time. If I wasn’t performing to my perceptions of the expectations of others and was struggling to cope, I felt like a complete failure. This resulted in me taking a back seat in active participation in the church – except in one particular area. God had blessed me with a particular gift which put me in the spotlight to an extent. This resulted in praise, acknowledgement and approval. The affirmation of talent did little to resolve the agonising issues. I felt that I always had to be brilliant before taking part in church activities.

This struggle with perfection was and is a constant part of my life. God sent wonderful mentors into my life at the time I most needed the sympathy, love and understanding of another human being. Without their support, my life’s journey would have seemed unbearable. Ultimately however, my great source of comfort has been the transparent pouring out of my heart to God and the moments when the light has broken through the clouds, and I am reassured of His love.

I long for a church that is transparent. I long for a church that is not afraid to acknowledge the mistakes of the past and present. I long for a church that affirms people regardless of the talent they may or may not possess. I long for a church that genuinely cares. I long for a church that encourages and uplifts rather than discourages and breaks down hope. I long for a church that is kind, patient, nurturing and understanding. I long for a church that exemplifies the attributes of 1 Corinthians 13.

“And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.” (1 Corinthians 13:13).

Lot of talk, not enough action. When action happens it sometimes goes against the values talked about.

I have been attending the Adventist church since before i was born. I have been involved for the last 20 years – youth leader, preaching, aid work, English teaching, sabbath school lesson taker, social justice work, communications for church and conference and literally about 40 more roles. It has been great and i have really enjoyed my time.

I haven’t become a member because i believe 27 of the 28 fundamentals. but what can I do – lie when I say the vows? Over the last 2 years, my church has had leaders that are adamant that only members should be doing things at the church. people like me – attending every week but not a member – have been banned from any sort of job. We were banned from taking bible studies and had our current roles taken away. I couldn’t see the point going to a church but not being allowed to contribute. It was too hard to have to say no to people all the time – people who are used to me helping them and who disagree with the leaders. Things haven’t got any better so I have stayed away. I miss my church.

It has been very interesting to leave the church – to see how few people contact you and to hear the rumours spread about you. Maybe one day I will be welcome to use my gifts for the Adventist church again.

I need to maintain my focus in Christ because when I look at people I get angry.

Pastor’s kid so full traditional and strict SDA childhood. “Drifted” away in teenage years during rebellious time but recall feeling of “not wanting to be the same as everyone” and “did not want to fit the mould”.
Attending non SDA school opened eyes to wider world and people.
Have a questioning and independent mind which the traditional framework of SDA approach clashes with. Did not grow up in an open environment at home or church where this was encouraged or understood.
At 18 met partner & future husband who was not spiritual or churchy person which no doubt cemented limited role of church and spirituality in life. Tried to attend church occasionally but it was a long way from home and did not really make any close friends as my life seemed so removed from theirs. Located away from family so they could not play active role in ongoing attendance. Did not have any SDA fiends living close to me (within 40 mins or so). Also found sermons not relevant to my life. My interpretation of some things (like how to spend Sabbath) would be different. I’m naturally more liberal and like to “bend the rules”.

Now many years have past from above and coupled with some tough experiences and a new maturity have now reassessed the role of spirituality , and God as well as looked for the good things about SDAs.
Not sure how or why but over time realised I did believe in God and started to see how he was supporting my life. No particular incident just over time. Perhaps people have been praying for me.
Also have family, especially brother who in non forceful way keeps me in touch with spiritual side through music & books & telling me what he is doing.
Was invited to a small group through a lady who seemed to get it and after attending the first one found it was not so scary so will go again and see how I go.

My experiences have been vast. Growing up in a church has provided a huge opportunity to learn about God. I think the most important thing for a person to remain a Christian in their adult life is by being provided with opportunity to encounter God and build that trust and relationship. I won’t say it is easy when you see both dear friends and siblings drop out of the church. Although my beliefs align with Adventist beliefs I am a Christian first and foremost. It is not about religion it is about relationship.

I was involved with worship back home in Melbourne churches often singing and praying and truth be told I am not often involved in the church I know attend partly because initially I wanted a break and partly because people don’t know me well enough to know my gifts and I guess maybe I am too modest.

I can clearly see answers to prayers particularly in my adult life that I can say has strengthened my faith in Christ and I guess kept me going to church as a result. At times I often skip church partly because I am just so emotionally drained by the end of the week and I just can’t get there but I often make it to Sabbath school where I gain so much and have great in depth discussions and sometimes debates with my peers. At times in my church we have had 40-50 peers in my SS.

The upshot is when you are away from your environment it either strengthens your faith and trust in God or you choose to walk away. I chose to hold on for dear life.

The thing I find the hardest is I am a single female. There are few and far between single males in our church and those that are either lack direction, strength or not God fearing men of quality. I have really question God and his provision on this matter and it is still something I struggle with. Hence I see a lot of my single beautiful girlfriends struggle and I can see why some leave the church.

When i resigned my membership of the SDA church, the church had fallen away from the times of Egg White and were no longer believers in God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit. Instead, they had turned into an organisation that now believed in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Bible. Where is the day by day power in that? There is no new power, fresh every morning – it was old air – yuk! Sure, the bible is refreshing, but we have a personal friend, a guide, a comforter, and all we need do is ask and He has already supplied all our needs, beyond what we could ever even think to ask for.

I don’t have an experience. I’ve been an SDA all my life, went to church all my life. Nothing ever happened to turn me off going to Church or being an SDA. Maybe that’s the problem. I’ve never felt I’ve had any type of experience with God at all. I guess I could see his leading when I was a better believer, but I have never felt God in my life as such. Never been overwhelmed with emotion when reading the bible, or worshiping. I just feel nothing. I believe in God but I don’t have a love for him, which is actually very sad. I don’t want to feel this way, but I do. I got sick of the SDA religion basically because I didn’t want to do something or be somebody just because that’s what was drummed into me all my life. I wanted to be a Christian because it was what I believed and researched myself to be true. But I just got lazier with time and I would call myself a Christian because I believe in God, but I have no relationship with him whatsoever, so I guess I’m not really a Christian in the end.

Hey, I love visiting other churches – live churches! Not dead ones like SDA churches. Have you ever felt really down and expecting to be revived by a praise and worship service? You don’t get that at a sev church! It’s like the congregation can’t wait to get out of the four walls of the church so they can breathe – inside the four walls, they have to stand still with arms hanging from shoulders. I used to love going to Hillsong Conferences. My favourite one was where they brought out BY YOUR SIDE – wow, what a difference to a sev church – if the sev church could stop tripping over itself and live loving God, then it too could be turning MOURNING INTO DANCING! and not be DEAD!

At the beginning of my walk with God I had a beautiful conversion experience that changed my life (A drug addicts life to completely free of it). When I become involved in the SDA church certain people introduced me to the idea or their understanding of the gospel that we can overcome sin and that God’s people must overcome sin before Jesus could come back. The beautiful picture of Gods love I had before this slowly went away as my emphasis became overcoming sin. Its became very clear to me that no matter how hard I tried I just couldn’t be perfect and in-fact any sinful problems I had just became worse and this scared me and caused me to think I would not go to heaven… eventually I became discouraged and somewhat depressed and after a few sequences of events I started drinking again and slowly stopped going to church. I am not bitter toward the church, I just don’t know how to unlearn all the rubbish and go back to the beginning where I fell in love with Jesus…

I have a relatively good experience and relationship with God (with its usual ups and downs) because I don’t depend on the ‘Church’ to give me all the answers and feed me. I commonly hear people complain about being an ‘outsider’. I feel that way too all the time, but it has made me think that we can’t all be outsiders can we? 95% of our complaints are in bound up our own perceptions.

God gave us with personal freedom of choice. If something is not working, including your own stagnated growth, remember you are the ‘Church’. Don’t expect the Church to try and accommodate all your needs, because Churches are hospitals for sinners. Sinners are not nice people; therefore, don’t blame God for the bad behavior of others. Cut each other some slack (you know, that whole forgiveness thing), including yourself, because none of us is perfect.

Finally, the modern world with all its Hollywood hype has conned us into believing we should have lightening conversions, continually be on fire for God, go as missionaries strange lands, etc. Jesus walked on water and it is highly unlikely you will – although of course anything with God is possible. Stop looking over oceans when you should be looking next door.

Life and relationships with people are not like that and they are not with God either. People who think their Christian experience should be like a Hollywood film usually swing from ultra-conservative fanatic to worldly-liberal. This is not being lukewarm as some of you might be thinking. This is planting your seed in the deep soil, not on the rock – consider Jesus’ parable of the scattering of the seeds.

Remember, Enoch didn’t do anything great – he simply walked daily with God. Yet compared with all the other prophets, and warriors, and kings, and heros, and other human beings who have lived down through the ages, he was the one God couldn’t stand to be without.

Mostly my reasons are more to do with a perception that God has failed in answering an important plea for over many years. Deep down I know I am being unfair, but can’t bring myself to fully acknowledge it as yet. What has made it worse is an observation of what I see as failings in Church administration (at all levels) with regard to personal work behavior (pursuing personal projects, frequent financial wastage, politics, lies and falsehoods to get funding.) This is not everyone, but is far too common for a church.

As a whole the church seems to mainly focus on benefits to members rather than assist – in tangible ways – those outside the church. I have no place, and am not, judging anyone’s relationship with God, just the ethics of business decisions at times.

The church were I attend mostly is far to big and I feel people only want to know you if you will make them look good – they’re two faced and unfriendly. I don’t want my children to grow up in a church where they will learn SDA politics that if you are nice to the right people, you will go a long way. It’s all the same. People who get jobs in the church it’s not because of their talents or experience it’s because of who their daddy is or who they know and it’s so wrong.

The church seems more interested in making sure every one has a job to do and keep every one busy. Why the hell for? The week is busy enough and you end up too busy to be able to enjoy a conversation with anyone. If you’re not running around doing a job you’re running around after kids that should have their parents around- where is the time to talk and build a network or people that you can laugh with? There is none if you don’t take time away from church and do it somewhere else.

I was raised in the SDA church with both of my parents being involved in the church at different levels. I too was involved as soon as I was able to be. At the age of about 16 I wandered from the church finding it to be ‘boring’ in comparison to the world, and spent my youth and young manhood being of the world. Finding this unsatisfactory, and missing the interaction with God, an event led me back to church, though not the SDA church. I was determined not to go back to where I came from. Nevertheless I could not beat the knowledge that Saturday was the true Sabbath, and the SDA church held true to a wise set of doctrines. And so, I found an SDA church which nurtured my desire to love the Lord in all I do. From then forward, I have battled daily with my love for God, my experience with the world, my desire to know Jesus better, and the lack of genuine faith I see in a stagnant church.

I grapple with and am not sure I can reconcile many of the theological tennants of Seventh-Day Adventism and Christianity. I think the Seventh Day Adventist church is largely a force for good, but like any organisation has a distinct culture that reflects it’s values. To someone whose views and ideas have diverged from what SDA’s believe, I have felt, at times, uncomfortable by a perceived judgemental culture.

However, to be true to itself, the church needs to maintain a culture aligned to it’s beliefs and values. I think the underlying issue is that the church probably needs fundamental reform at the root level (even a revision of the 28 fundamental beliefs) to stay relevant to a fast changing post industrial world. That reform may threaten it’s current existence, but I suspect a failure to reform and a continued lack of relevance will be a more dangerous threat (at least in the developed world for now).

I have only been in the SDA church for 2 years. My church is not traditional and I like that I can go in tracksuit pants and am not judged for my clothes or other superficial things. The modern music really speaks to me. I am pretty involved in church activities and enjoy the team effort. One difficulty I have is that I would like to meet a single christian man and there are not any my age in church. I’m not a person who would go to a ’singles’ event but would really appreciate some other major church events where I could meet others my own age.

I have found in general the SDA church to be very gossipy and very cold. There are a few that are very welcoming but as a rule I’m not comfy going there. I have a challenging child and the looks I get put me off for life.

I’ve had good experiences with the church and have no issues or hurts because of the church. The thing I’ve found now though is that after having joined Spirit-filled SDA group, there is so much that wasn’t taught as i grew up in the church. There’s so much more to the Holy Spirit, and Spiritual Gifts are very much alive and well. Why are people afraid of the Holy Spirit? How can we know what deception is if we don’t know what is real?

Why are we not taught how to have an intimate relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit. This is the part of my journey that I struggle with the most. Why is there so much focus on the Law when it is Jesus who is much more important?

It’s not necessarily the SDA church just the one I was attending that I had a bad experience at. I found some of the people very unwelcoming and very quick to judge and bitch about others. I know that no one is perfect but that should not be the qualities of a Christian. That is why I do not have time for that because I do not want those kind of people to influence my life.

I have never been happier since stopping attending church. It is only retrospectively that I can recognise the degree to which I was disapproved of while involved in the church, and it is so lovely to now be part of the wider world which values me and the gifts I have. The effort involved in tiptoeing past redundant doctrines (1844 based sanctuary doctrines are a good example) and inconsistently applied behavioural codes (caffeine is bad, but sugar is no problem, for instance) was quite exhausting while I was still involved, and it is also fantastic to not have to deal with nut jobs claiming that Jesus gets them great parking spots (for instance). I also enjoy not being exposed to patent nonsense and waffle in Sabbath School and in the sermons. I did not have a ‘bad’ experience with the church, per se, but then, if I am so much happier not attending – maybe I should revisit that idea. Surely if the experience was primarily good, I should miss it. I have some lovely memories, but whenever I think of church I feel a wave of relief that I don’t have to be part of it anymore.

Having grown up SDA it just feels ‘comfortable’. This is both good and bad. The bad is that I can be insular and lazy in my spirituality, going through the motions without ever really evaluating or being challenged. I wish I had the certainty that many, particularly older, church people seem to have. But I often find their view of religion simplistic; black and white when the world I know seems much more grey. I’m OK with not knowing all the answers, albeit frequently frustrated, but it disturbs me that many people appear to be so certain of what they believe they are unable to honestly evaluate anything different. I often wonder if I would find the Adventist church credible if I wasn’t brought up this way, and the conclusion I have come to is probably not. Even though externally I appear to be a good Adventist (live the ‘right’ lifestyle, go to church regularly, talk to the oldies…) I often feel like a fraud, going through the motions of something I’m not even sure if I really believe anymore.

Growing up as a teenager and overhearing leaders in the church speaking negatively of my parents. Not allowing me to use my talents. basically kicking my parents out of the church because the played a Hillsong song during the service. Being judged on what i used to wear. I still attend because i feel like have something to prove. I have watched all of the young people I grew up with leave also. They did not leave because of God or because they lost interest. The left because church did not encourage them. Our ideas and opinions were pushed aside. The church board has been run by the same group for the last 30 years and they don’t like any kind of change. They wonder why there are no young people left when they the church like its the 1800’s. The only instruments are a organ, piano and violin. My dad tried to help my friends and i get a band together but we were told we could not have drums of guitars in church. My sister sang too much like a rock star. The would let her be a worship leader because she did not sing like it was the 1950’s. They put a women in charge of children’s ministries who believes that modern music is from the devil. The church population is full of people aged over 60 and yet they wonder why. It breaks my heart, I attend another local church weekly which i am very involved with. It is not an SDA church. They have a band. I get to sing. I love old hymns but i also love fast paced songs. I love that we do community service and that work in women’s ministries. I don’t tell the people at the SDA church that i belong at another church. I know they wont like it. How can a church stuck in the 1950’s possible appeal to people in the day and age?

After a dramatic conversion, my service to the Lord has brought an amazing quality to my life. I would honestly serve the Lord if there were no money, eternal life, or benefit to my family. The awesome power of the sacred Lord has brought me to my knees many times and I long to see His beautiful face.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.–apostle Paul

I long for everyone to have this authentic experience with Christ.

I spent a lifetime in the Adventist Church. When I was old enough to physically resist attendance I did. Some words to describe my experiences are:
Clicky.
Narrow minded and self advocating.
Riddled with bullying.

I also resent the approach the church had to a certain womanising man in the congregation.  The social and personal practices of this man were disgusting, and the church atmosphere and teaching encouraged him to be judgmental and condescending to others. No one in the church ever approached him to question his actions and their cruelty.

Back when I went to SDA church, it was strict and i attend SDA school and church for over 10 years. Throughout the entire time I felt that personal spiritual growth was missing in the church teachings. Woman role models within the bible stories where mostly portrayed as weak, sinners, prostitutes, Jezebels, etc..quite frankly this did not appeal to me and I thought it very outdated to stereotype woman in such roles. Men usually ran the church at the time, it was very patriarchal and many of the men at church where involved in questionable activity, infidelity, violence, etc…

Spiritually I saw the church as somewhere you went not to be involved in yourself but to escape. Furthermore I was attracted to the Buddhism beliefs which were far more sophisticated and evolved and the teachings were more practical in spiritual application. It is pretty hard to accept that if a God existed that he would be male, that we are born into sin and we are a mistake and that we are forever having to feel inadequate, like sinners and are lesser than god. I think this is a cop out and an entire waste of time and encourages people to disengage in life by focusing on tomorrows and no taking charge of today.

I was indoctrinated from a young age and started to question theology and doctrines in my early teens. Questions to important issues were never explained to a reasonable degree and prejudices against women and GLBTIQ identifying people made me increasingly uncomfortable in the church. I tried to convince myself to stay so I could be involved in social justice issues but realised this was not necessary and that religion often did more harm than good. Have left the church and ‘the faith’ completely and am much better off for it. I think that people are right when they call churches cults and if I had been presented with a choice, without pressure from either side, I would never have joined. I know there are still people in the SDA church whose beliefs are almost non-existent but they stay because of peer pressure and a lingering fear of a god’s wrath.

My Wife is a Non Sev. Her first ever experience with the local church 10 mins drive from home made even myself feel unwelcome. They where judgmental on a Adventist marrying a Non Sev and the fact that she was a christian of a different faith. We both found a church we liked but the church is over an hours drive one way.

I grew up going to the Adventist church and also went to a sev school. I have been to many churches both Sev and Non Sev. I think Adventists need to be a lot less judgmental and stuck in their ways. As others I talk to even in the church say the young people just don’t get a say. It worries me that the next generation is leaving in droves, as a result of others stuck in the past and judgmental attitudes.

Experimented with no church for a while at Avondale College (LOL!) but always felt I was missing something. Since then, it has never been a question for me. Have made some pretty big changes to my thoughts lately on the hot potato issues of Sabbath Activities and Alcohol, but my decisions actually haven’t changed, just the philosophy behind them. A partner with a chip on shoulder from childhood questioning things made me even more certain of my beliefs, as did a 5 year old asking all the why questions!! I am more convinced than ever that this is the right church (biblically) and that I will do all I can to support it.

The SDA church like all religions are stuck in their own old ways and are not accepting of new thinking. The whole idea of religion is an outdated belief, for people who are too lazy to go out to find their own spirituality.
They have to latch onto a group of people to feed their need of belonging and when that idea, that they call ‘their belief’ is challenged, their little comfort zone is smashed around them they blame everybody else and whoever doesn’t believe what they believe is wrong. That is why so many wars and conflicts have started over religion, narrow minded people who can not handle that their beliefs could be incorrect.

The church is doing a good job of a hard job. There are areas that can be improved. I’m sure people are trying hard at this.

My experience has been with a few churches and has always been the same. I personally have been involved in some form or another with the music scene in the church for most of my life. Basically what happens is that there are rarely any leaders that are strong enough to ignore a vocal 1% of almost any congregation who believes that their ideas are what the church should adhere to. Usually their ideas are a mere watering down of the churches mission statement in order to appeal to everyone. An offend noone approach which breeds a mediocre, lifeless church experience for the other 99% of the congregation. Unfortunately with every congregation probably 60% or more are happy to turn up and take whatever they are spoon fed and not question it or at least voice their concern. What I believe this results in is a church service which will merely hold on to the bulk of its members, annoy the other minor groups making up the other 30% – 40% or so and makes for a very bland, boring church that won’t achieve what it should be doing most which is being interesting enough to pull non believers in off of the street. This should be the main purpose of the church in my view. This is what I believe is happening. Its that or they’ve just plain old got it completely wrong. We have the word, other people need to know about it.

I went to an SDA school, but not as a Seventh Day adventist, as a christian attending a good school. I found the SDA church very insular and I found it hard to challenge ideas without being labeled a dissident for thinking differently. I still don’t think I’m a radical thinker, I have a large christian family who attend various denominations, am at a stage in life where my wife and I want to reconnect with our faith in God but I don’t think the SDA church is right for us. I never felt accepted as a christian, only that I (and my family) wasn’t a SDA member and that made us different.

I went to Adventist Schools and Church until I went to university and at Uni I found that non Adventists were so much nicer! No matter how hard I tried to be “THE PERFECT ADVENTIST” when I was growing up I was always made to feel like I wasn’t good enough because my parents didn’t work for the church and I was judged on issues that did not even exist! Adventists are nasty self obsessed people and I worry about my younger cousins that are being brainwashed to feel less than adequate! Adventists need to take a long hard look at themselves and realise that God doesn’t just love you because your mum works at the adventist school and your dad is a minister!

I have seen the SDA church from a few perspectives. It is great to belong to a body of believers who love God and His word. Sometimes the misguided and narrow perspectives that people have can be frustrating. I believe that we sometimes worship only in the Truth and not in the Spirit, when the Bible clearly tells us to worship in Spirit and in Truth. Any and every church has negatives because they are made up of humans. The reality is that we serve an awesome God who has revealed himself through Jesus and we need to remember to follow Him and not others.

I feel that the church is to busy looking at the details of the Bible and not looking at the big picture enough (eg. knowing how old the oldest man in the Bible is verses understanding the golden rule). I also think that the church is caught up on judging what others are doing or saying rather than helping those in their church.

I grew up in the SDA church . It was a great experience and I do not regret it. I think I would do the same if I had children. There was one big issue for me being so distant to church + that was when my father passed away when I was 19yrs old. This changed my life. I went through a deep depression and even blamed god. I don’t believe the church where their for me at all. I had a close friend from church that was their but not all the time. It was very obvious what I was going through as my dress showed it . It was a very hard time and cant say the church where there for me for support and even today . I will pop into churches but don’t feel that things have changed. I feel like I am being judged by others which is not the way to be . Most of my friends are married / moved on therefore being with people my age, same interests + goals is important. But its hard to break into that circle of people / community / church.

Recently returned to church with my family, and loving it. The church has great people, very welcoming which allows me to have a great spiritual understanding.

I feel the church is stagnant. At times its busy pointing the finger at other faiths/beliefs when it can improve itself. Church needs to accept people for who they are without loosing interest when someone cannot be converted. saying this I have to admit our local church has improved and doing much better things. I enjoy going to church and worshiping with others.

We have generally found people in the church to be friendly, however our attempts to stick at going to church have always failed because we need something that will engage us more than a sermon once a week – possibly community service programs/bible study groups might help us, or building a network of friends in the church.

We have also found a lot of people going through the motions (ourselves included when we used to go to church). We need something that seems real and genuine from the outset as this is what would draw us in. As we are now, I imagine when we have kids we will rejoin the church — and go through the motions for our kids. However, we do wish we had the drive now to start going back to church and putting in the effort to really get to know God, however we are busy and it seems too difficult to bother.

I used to help out with pathfinders and Cradle Roll. It became a second job in the end and other members where critical of the way in which I did things. People are judgemental no matter where you go but you expect that church would be one place you could go and be accepted for who you are and feel comfortable to be appart of the group.
I would never go back to a youth rally – all they do there is stand out the front of the foyer and size you up as you walk in. Is she pretty, does she have nice clothes on, is she available etc etc. It was hard enough being brought up in a family where one parent goes to church and the other doesn’t – it used to be a huge argument between my parents every Saturday morning.

The church is full of nice friendly people. But no one with willing to involve themselves in a relationship of any depth that means anything. Nice people but very few friendships. No one I can really trust or rely on in hard times. I try to involve myself and serve others, but there is very little acceptance or appreciation for this effort.

The individual people are nice people, however I think that organizationally it is very ‘clique’ so unless you fit into the mold you often feel as though you aren’t a good enough Adventist.

I think the church sets people, especially newcomers or new believers, for spiritual failure because at church it is hard to see ‘real’ people. Pastors have to ‘do’ all the ‘right’ things which I think is unrealistic. To be honest, I’d love to see a Pastor who did have the occasional drink, or ate meat, even ‘unclean’ food if it was offered to them, as I think that shows that they are real people. I think it would mirror Christ more accurately.

I feel more comfortable at the Sunday church I go to more regularly but do feel Saturday is the sabbath – therefore mix my attendance between the two.

I found that the SDA church fell away from the most exciting aspects of Jesus’ life and ideas. The basics; love, forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, kindness and understanding. These are such powerful concepts. Instead like most Christian faiths the people who attend are more interested in gossiping about each other, looking down at each other and basically not very nice. I tried to continue and found that it depressed me, was not tolerant, not understand, not accepting and definitely no love. My sexuality being a gay man was also made very clear was not acceptable in the church. Telling a confused young kid that being gay was paramount to murder, did extensive damage to a very tender self esteem that took a very long time to heal.

Once I left the church and made new friends I was shown all those things by my new friends and colleagues. The people I met at university and while I have traveled around the world have taught me about kindness, helping those less fortunate and many other wonderful things.

My increased understanding of science (particularly evolution) and other religions, together with the sheltered youth fostered by the SDA church having a tendency to try and ‘protect’ young kids from the evils of the world, has consequently resulted in a seeking of the truth. While spiritually I have a fundamental interest in ensuring the welfare of others and doing to others as I would have done to me, I question the rest of the church’s beliefs.

I struggle with the moral standard of the Adventist church leadership and even the laity – the misunderstanding and misidentification of what morality actually is. It is unfortunate that people measure their own and others morality based on a set of traditional social principles rather than a bigger picture view of what it means to be human and what it means to be part of a global community. Adventists seem more interested in meeting a set of accepted standards, rather than living according to a sense of moral responsibility to the world and humanity. More and more I see decisions made based on finance rather than people; I see tithe money and other church income spent in what can only be described as immoral ways – eg. church leadership living executive lifestyles with little to no disclosure and accountability; phenomenal amounts of money spent on events that really have little to no impact on the Australian/World community such as annual camp meetings. I see the church hierarchy increasingly interested in the self-preservation and self-perpetuation of the Adventist church, rather than real issues of morality and social justice concerning my community, and people in communities who are in far greater need than the Australian Adventist community. I feel that the Adventist church is maintaining a dangerous status quo – particularly intellectually. I feel that those who want to challenge accepted doctrine or who actively seek open dialogue are suppressed. I feel that intellectually, the Adventist church is hovering in an Americo-centric time warp from the late 19th and early 20th centuries. During this time, the Adventist church was very progressive – somewhere along the way through its second and third half centuries, Adventism has moved from being intellectually and practically progressive to lagging dangerously behind. To apply an evolutionary (and potentially Marxist) analogy, species that don’t adapt, die out. I would hate to see this happen, as I believe that Adventist church has so much to offer the humanity and the world, and I would love to see the Adventist church become bold and progressive once more. I would love to see the people of the Adventist church as a whole, focus on social justice, sensible political awareness and participation, a place for open dialogue. I would love the Adventist church to be a shining beacon to the world, rather than an obscure cult more interested in itself than anyone else.

I was attracted to my local church because of the warm, friendly atmosphere that my wife and I experienced the very first time we went. It was a huge relief for me because my wife is not an Adventist. Because of the friendly members of this church, my wife asked that we make this church our local church. I was relieved my wife was so comfortable at our local church because, I was born and raised an Adventist, and I have experienced loads of prejudice and snobbery from many SDA churches in my past.
I don’t know what it is, maybe it’s just me, but I do think that most SDA congregations are so set in their ways that they feel threatened when new people come into the church. In my previous church we have had incidents of racism so blatant that I almost left the church.
I have also seen prejudice when I was much younger and witnessed how my grandfather, who was an Adventist Pastor, was called to serve in New Zealand. Because he was a Pacific Islander, he was to receive the same Pacific Islander wages although he was called to work in New Zealand. Now this wage could never ever cover the cost of living in New Zealand and when this matter was taken to the Conference it was never dealt with.
I believe that the SDA church has a message and mission for the world today. What frightens me is that we may be our own worst enemy in terms of not showing true christian love for one another and not maintaining growing relationships for new Christians.
Sorry to sound so negative but I do love the Church.

As Pastor’s change and friends move away I feel like the dynamics of a church can change dramatically. Over the last year I have struggled to attend church regularly for a number of reasons:
*guilt due to choosing to lead a sinful lifestyle, and felt hypocritical coming to church
*sometimes i feel like church can be a bit “fake” and if i’m not feeling “happy and positive” that I don’t have the energy for it
*i don’t have anyone to sit next to when i arrive and don’t want to sit alone
*don’t have one close by and it take me 45minutes to drive
*i’d rather sleep in and be outdoors enjoying nature
*friends stopped going

I believe the church is a religious club with antiquated rules and regulations that isnt willing to explore doctrine at a fundimental level. People in the church can not be blamed for insulting or offending others, thats just people being people.

There is so much potential – but it seems to fall short over and over. People become dis-enthused, tired, burnt out, fall away. Where is the power? All these professions of Godliness, but it feels bereft of true power so often. I struggle to see God really working in my local church.

I believe the SDA church has a wonderful, relevant message and it really excites me when I think of our potential. But somehow we aren’t tapping in to who we really could be and what we really could do through Christ. Good people are dropping out the sides as they see hypocrisy and comfortable Christians (myself included – comfortable Christian, that is). I long for a true discipleship experience, where I am serious about Bible study, stewardship, looking after myself, walking like Jesus with a group of peers with a like-minded goal and attitude- and everything else that it would take to have a vibrant and relevant experience with Christ. I yearn for the accountability and camaraderie of a group of like-minded people, passionate about getting serious about God and really making a difference in the lives around us. God is so incredibly good – and I thank Ellen White largely for helping me to understand the Bible better. But I feel very alone so often – I feel I am at a place which few others are at (not true, I know, but it feels like that as I look around) a deep hunger is inside me as I have had a taste of God and the difference his presence has made in my life and want more of it. I look around and feel very sad for those who aren’t getting it. But, I am part of the problem – I am too easily consumed with selfishness and blindness through personal problems and daily living. I know God is working on me – teaching me to surrender more and more to him and to trust Him…but I’m afraid it’s slow business and I’m sure he gets more frustrated than I do!

I feel the emphasis of church should be on the individual’s PERSONAL growth and walk with God. So many seem to come to church hoping that this activity would be the solution to their search – so many leave unhappy. Perhaps the church’s greatest task is turning people back to the Bible and release the burden of responsibility that it has seemed to create for itself. If we could teach the people how to fish for themselves, we’d feed them for a lifetime. The church is meant to SUPPORT, encourage and teach the person how to fish. I feel we’ve lost this vision somehow. The church can create all support and opportunity for growing Christians, but if the individual isn’t personally walking daily with Christ, I feel it will ultimately end in sadness for the person.

What I’m saying, I guess, is the Church’s number one focus should be on creating an environment/culture where the emphasis is on each individual experiencing a fulfilling, relevant and joyful personal walk with God. From this all things will flow – participation at church, community service, stewardship…
We’ve got to get back to our Bibles. Number 1.

I think the time I stopped going to church was when friends and family were shunned from the church because of things like divorce and being gay. Since seeing that I haven’t been as dedicated, knowing that if one of my friends or family does something that is deemed unacceptable by the church, they’ll be gone and wont be welcomed back, but instead gossiped about.

I am finding more and more that church services are going through rote-sequences. There is no real connection with the people, with the Spirit, and with God. There is no passion in the SDA church except for those passionate against what others do instead of being accepting (but that is another issue).

One thing I truly believe in is this: “Praise is what we do to come in to the presence of God. Worship is what we do once we are there.” I do not remember the last time I felt that I came in to the presence of God at church. The worship leaders are ‘passionate’ about what they do, but it feels to be a facade. “We do this because…” or “See the emotion and passion in me while leading…” Passion and connection will not and cannot be gained by going through the motions, nor is it felt because I see some one else appearing to go through it. I do not feel the Spirit of God moving through His people in the SDA church.

The chuch me and my family used to attend was very unwelcoming.The paster didnt even know that we attended the church. There was never anything for the youth of the church, which didnt make it very appealing to the youth (the youth are the future of the church). Cause of this me and my family wouldn’t go very often. My mum died and two weeks later l had a baby and not once did that church call me or offer their help. Another church in our area helped us with food and offered their support. Cause of this we stopped going to the old church and started going to this new church and haven’t looked back, we love everything this new church has to offer , and we get involved as a family. Thats what church is all about, feeling welcomed and being apart of the church.

I was born into a family of SDA and attended every week as of a baby to about 15. I never felt a connection and felt a falseness with some of the members as if it were a competition of who is the better christian as if there was a social heirachy of which family is connected to who. There were some very real loving people but the majority I felt were fake and where there just to be a part of a larger group [to belong]. I feel that this seemed to overshadow the real reason as to why we should be there. I have looked into other religions and aspects of spirituality and always felt a connection with more alternative ways of paganism and nature worship and accepting the energy connection we have on many different levels with all living things, I found no relevance to this with SDA if anything other ways of worship were looked at as works of evil angels and people were to scared to open up and step outside their comfort zone and investigate something new. God is known by many names in so many religions, I strongly believe in angles I have felt their presence many times. I just don’t want to devote myself to one following but to experience many, SDA is still very new compared to other denominations and religions. I think a mix of Buddism, Paganism, Christianity and Islam would make a well rounded mix but this is where the problem lies as each of these have conflicting view points. I find it very interesting that most SDA followers have had little or no experience with other religions so I say to these people so how do you know this is the right religion to devote your spiritual growth too? I’m interested to hear how people have come to chose the SDA church.

I have a non-Adventist (she is Christian) wife, and it is very difficult to break down the ‘click’ of not being Adventist. Unfortunately often the format of the service makes it very difficult to go to church along with children – and it can take only one ‘old-school’ minister who is visiting to preach to decide that he needs to talk until 12.30-12.45 (even after 12.15 is pushing) to get back to the old values – it turns us off for weeks afterwards.

We often only go to Sabbath school for the kids. I know it is critical to allow my children (2 under 4) the experience of growing up in a Christian household, and from my own background, Adventism is my understanding and context to this Christian household and is something i try to align myself to. I’m also travelling a fair way (30 mins+) each trip for church, and having kids in cars before 9am is a chore and not fun in itself. I need to find a church closer to me.

Adventism is about the entire experience – going to an Adventist school, Avondale, working for the church (some people), eating Sanitarium, being vegetarian around adventists and ravenous meat eaters in private etc etc. If you do not go to the extent of surrounding yourself with specifically an Adventist context and social circumstance, Christianity doesnt seem to be enough. A club i guess, which you can only be born into it feels like at times. I was born into it. My peers and my wife weren’t, so it becomes difficult to align and understand it.

I was brought up as an Adventist but attended church rarely. I attended church a little more frequent as a teenager but it was more of a social catch up with friends rather than to attend church. After leaving college my girlfriend (now wife) and I moved in together and attended church rarely. Life experiences really took it’s toll on myself and my wife and our marriage and we started to attend church more frequently especially after seeing a dvd that was given to us by some of our Adventist friends. It opened up our minds and then hearts to God and His plans for us and for the world.

Church has taken on a new meaning for myself and given my family and myself a new lease on life. God has been ever so more important in our lives and also the acknowledgment of the death and resurrection of our precious Jesus for our sins and salvation and who conquered death. We have come to an understanding of why it’s important to not just believe but read the bible, do bible studies, our lessons and attend church to know we’re in good hands. It’s also a life changing experience to grow as a different person and see and view the world ever so differently especially with what it has to offer and of course be comforted with what is yet to come. My wife and I have weekly bible studies to prepare us for baptism. I myself will be re-baptised after my recommitment to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord for second, third, forth, chances. He’s ever so near, yet ever so forgiving. What a loving God we have!

Have done school, college, worked for in schools, Avondale, retirement village and hospital. And its all dodgy politics and full of the most unChristian people I have ever met. People who find hiding secrets more honest than dealing with them. Church is full of rightous s#!* and the most unchristian people.

Father is a pastor, was forced to go to church until at least 16.
Some parts of church were good, but the incredible two-faced nature of many of the followers turned me off going quickly. The people making the most noise in the church would be the same ones drinking on weekends and bitching, lying and generally acting like idiots. Residing in a SDA town did not help either. I found the nicest and most genuine people i knew were not part of the SDA church.

My experience with the SDA church has always been a great one, its me that rebelled at a stage in my life because i thought i wasn’t ready to take on board that fact that i should surrender my all to God for good and positive things to happen to my life. But when i learnt that that’s exactly what I needed to do I succeeded. I thank God everyday for the life he has given me.

I had a youth worker sexually abuse me. They have never once offered any help towards my healing. only more hurt. I don’t feel at home in any SDA church. I feel like a spectator unable to engage with those around me or God. I worship beautifully on my own and in nature in other churches – not all but some – but the traditional legalistic attitude of SDA is killing those around them. I see it raising up a generation of apathetical people who call themselves Christians but have no idea how to really pray or even hear from God which is in essence what a Christian should be able to do at the beginning of their relationship. They will not ever look at some of their foundational doctrines which need to be humbly changed that are not based on the word of God. They also need to stop being Pro-Choice which is a political issue and become “Lovers of Life” acknowledging that every person with the potential to be born has a destiny a future and an ability to bring God intense joy and should not be withheld from him. Even a child of rape can grow to be an incredible potential for change and love in this world bringing people to Jesus and showing how great his love is.

Creativity must be brought back into the church – God never became boring – we did.

Do not feel I would be accepted for who I am and what I believe. Too strict. Feel the needed to keep up pretenses, instead of being myself. Not well, so getting up so early is a struggle. Would attend social events, but many hurts in the past, am happy and content where I am now. Less stressed and don’t feel anyone is judging me. Would attend sabbath school with my kids if I had some… but until then… have had a lifetime of being preached too… and constant pressure from parents.

Hmm…grew up SDA, stayed SDA, still SDA – but feel a little diconnected from god himself. I am TOO involved with church life, but thats my choice, because I feel good when I am doing things for people – so I make that a priority rather than God himself.

My husband is basically the same so sometimes we wonder what we are doing it all for because we are lacking that closeness with God anyway. but then we figure if we don’t we may loose touch altogether and at least this way its helping us hold on.

I think a part of our spiritual life is a little stagnated from lack of time/similar others as we have two small kids, heavily involved in children’s ministries at our local church, don’t have many peers our age/stage as we live in a tiny town. Most other friends are “disconnected” 25-40 yr olds and only come to our church to bring their kids for sabbath school and then leave. We do not share any spiritual experiences with them. This is our biggest struggle – maintaining our spiritual growth on our “own” – but I guess you can’t blame others!

So that’s where we are at. Not quite disconnected, but we have thought/do consider about the worthness of continually attending a small country church which does not really meet our needs. I guess we are constantly guided on by that old adage of helping others is really helping yourself…?

I came to a point in my life where I decided I was tired of sitting on the fence, that it was time to decide what I believed. I happened upon, with some friends, a non-denominational church about an hours drive away, which tends towards the pentecostal-style of worship. Everyone there is so friendly, so freely talk about God and their spiritual journey, and are amazing worshipers. I feel that they have a much more unified view of God and spiritual gifts (they aren’t afraid of prophecy, for example). I have been an sda my entire life, and feel that i’ve only just found God in my 30’s and in a non-denom church.

I’ve ended up going back quite a few times on a sunday morning. However, it has also led me to start attending my own SDA church on Saturday. I felt that I would like to keep attending my church, and remain an SDA but at the same time I get a real spiritual hit from this other church – so at least once a month I go to church on Saturday AND Sunday morning (often more than once a month). I’d like to bring the wonderful qualities of this non-denom church to my SDA church.

Born and bred SDA. Growing up was very strict and in turn I rebelled, but I came back 100% committed and will never walk away from God. The church I attend is very old school, legalistic etc which can be hard, but they are also my church family. The hardest part is being the only person in my late 20’s. I would love to see more people my age with similar tastes and likes and beliefs involved at my church. I want to be at a church that is packed full of life, passion and friends my own age. If i want that, I have to drive 40mins away to go to church, and due to my illness i simply find it easier to sleep, read, watch 3abn or listen to podcasts on sabbath. Jesus is my saviour. I want to give back to Him all He has given to me.

Forced Out of Church! It was terrifying for me to leave, but in order to grow I had to go. I contextualised the gospel message into the language of the locals so that young people and new members understood more easily but often a minority of members tried to straightjacket me. Most of my school friends and I left because of intolerance and a lack of relevance. I read my way out of belief from books at the local bookstore rather than the ABC. If Adventism can’t stand up to intellectual honesty and critical review than it is faulty and flawed. My dream for Adventism was to be open to a cross pollination of world views. This was not the case. Instead I found it to be more political then ethical in its decision making processes and search for truth. It was my dream to contribute to a caring community that supported creative ministries. I looked all over the country for one, but when I faced the reality that I couldn’t find such a church, the pain was so great that I decided to abandon my belief system altogether.

Generally Adventists like to justify what they think with a Biblical text. The problem is, if what Adventists believe doesn’t translate into actions of loving and loveable Christians, all their beliefs amount to nothing. Again I am attending church, but I am not allowed to preach…because I ask to many questions. I love being connected and honoring my heritage however I do not grow in such a inhibited environment.

I was baptised into the church several years ago after leaving it for many years. I still enjoy church but find it hard to fit in and attend without being pulled into things I feel require a greater level of spirituality than I have. Also my husband is a non-Adventist and while he attends with me some of the activities and intensive Bible studies are ahead of where we are right now.

Was born into an Adventist family and am married to a pastor, but feel that I have never had to test my faith or make it my own. Has just always been there as what we do. Now am struggling with wanting to make it my own and pass on to my children. Sick of people saying that music and jewlerey are important to fight over instead of just getting in and being tolerant and aware that everybody worships God in a different way and that is ok, neither is wrong. Sick of older people not wanting children to be seen and heard in the church buildiing. They are people too.

I was impressed by talking with a friend who is working for the Salvation Army. He said that because the ‘Salvo’s’ have a reputation for helping people, they are respected and accepted widely. I believe it would be great to focus more on helping people. This is also the way Jesus worked – first healing and then teaching the people. My own experience with the church has been positive, although at times I wish the church would focus less on theological discussions and more on helping hurting people in a real and relevant way. There are so many people suffering from depression, loneliness, poverty and disease. We need both a local community, and world-wide outreach.

My spiritual focus has always been more about God, Christianity and the Bible rather than a particular church. My experience with the SDA church has been mostly positive. I went to great SDA schools and have many good friends who are SDA. I also have many friends who are not SDA, and I am always interested in their perception of SDA’s. Many of them think of SDA’s to be ’strange’ . I have come to believe it’s because many SDA tend to stick together a lot. As a result they seem ’sheltered.’ Hard to attract the ‘average joe’ when the tight knit group is almost intimidating and appears so different.

We recently had our boys christened catholic because we want to raise our kids with Christian values and beliefs. The nearest Christian school to us that we liked happens to be catholic. I find it interesting how strong of a negative view SDA’s have towards Catholics yet Catholics don’t have a strong negative view about any other church. It makes me wonder….shouldn’t we all be in this together? Shouldn’t it be about God rather than a church?

I want to be in a church that is happy to have me as I am -without having to pretend that everything is good and that I don’t stuff up. The church is seeing young people fall off left right and center but they don’t seem to want to look at themselves as the issue. In their minds it’s the young people rather than their bigoted attitudes that are the problem. If the values and beliefs of the fathers don’t become owned by children, then the children will throw them away. However there is a real reluctance to allow this changing of the guard and supporting people to grow into the future leadership of the church.

There was a time in my life when I felt God’s presence and it was amazing and I really wanted to know him more and grow Spiritually but then I made some really bad choices and got messed up with drugs and alcohol and other personal issues and eventually my life just fell apart and I drifted so far from God that I don’t even know how to find my way back and make things right with him. I would love to have him in my life and not have this negativity but it just has such a strong grip on my life and I don’t know how to be free again.

After after the lost of our son, we started to attend an SDA church. As time moved on, I found that after studying the church beliefs & studying more on prophecy that my old (anglican) beliefs were not valid. I have grown to know the importance of Sabbath. Unfortunately my wife treats church as a ’social’ thing, and has no desire to even try to understand. Even mentioning that I no longer want to work on Sabbath, creates arguments about money and other issues. I have spoken with the pastor, and others within the church, but their advice is unrealistic. I don’t know how the church could assist in helping, but hopefully this input can open discussion within the church. I am sure I would not be the only person in this situation.

My experience is that a vast majority of SDAs are not at all serious about ensuring they spend time in prayer and bible study daily and sacrificing self. Church is just like a social outing – a club to belong to – a place to be entertained. A lot completely ignore the health message. A lot are seriously critical and then the opposite extreme, a lot do not take the Law/prophetic word and it’s implications seriously. “if Satan cannot keep souls bound in the ice of indifference, he will try to push them into the fire of fanaticism.” – 1MCP 38.2 IS SOOOO TRUE! To be perfectly fair, I’ve had tendencies in each camp as well! Not good. Lord help me!

I found the SDA church caused me to develop a very cynical attitude and did not encourage me to be open to what God wanted to do in my life. The church seems to question everything and has a religious spirit which stops people from getting to know God intimately, which is the whole point of the Christian journey.

I have a new baby and would like to take him to sabbath school and church on a regular basis but I don’t feel like the church I used to go to cares that I haven’t been for there for over 18 months as no one ever contacted me during my absence. It was almost like I didn’t exist when I was at church so why would anyone miss me when I’m not going. It’s a shame that people who go to church every week are so blinded by what they think they are doing is right that they don’t see past the nose on their face and notice people who haven’t been to church for a while. It’s an all too familiar story…

I truly believe on the SDA church and have met both good and bad people in the church, just like I would anywhere. Lately I’m a bit tired of the whole “trying hard to please a short attention span spoiled generation” attitude of the church, maybe I’m just too old for that but I’ve seen teenagers having a commited and fired up attitude towards church before so it doesn’t have to be soft and fluffy just because we’re trying to engage the youth.
So although I recognize I’m in charge of my spiritual life I don’t feel bad about thinking the whole youth worship has become a circus at times and the thing that makes me feel the worst is that a belong to a very “used to be intellectual but still sound doctrine church” who doesn’t equip me to make a difference in the world in any way other than giving money.

Another thing that frustrates me is the indifference with the health message, but once again, I don’t have to follow the poor standards of the SDA church (especially applicable to the SDA culture in Australia).
Having said that I don’t believe in out there evangelism that’s intrusive and pushy, but I do believe in less noise and more focus on God so our lives can be a testimony.

I was brought up in a very traditional Adventist church and never formed my own relationship with Jesus. I never learnt to separate my relationship with the Church from my relationship with God. Something I still struggle to do. I now work for the church system and find I am not in a place to be able to be really honest about my struggle.

My experience hasn’t been ‘bad’. I tend to keep to myself and sneak in and sneak out again when i go. groups/crowds make me uncomfortable. i also struggle with the idea that all religions profess to be right, and they’re all products of patriarchal dictates. i think that ‘true’ Christianity is lost in all the rules and regulations that exist in organised religion and in the manner which it is sometimes represented to society. I recognise that we are all flawed and will make mistakes etc and perfection is for the gods, so to speak, however, at times, i feel uncomfortable associating myself with these misrepresentations of the God that I love. I think that my lack of attendance is also due to the fact that I’ve not grown up with the weekly routine, and therefore, it is not second nature to me or a ‘habit’. And to tell the truth, I’m glad about that. When I do go, I generally enjoy it and have bouts of attendance for a month or so…it cycles.

I was raised an SDA by faithful SDA parents. However, as I matured and made my own opinions and starting questioning things I found that the answers I got from bible study were not the same as what the SDA church taught. This leads to a lot of secretive actions whilst coming to church and acting like a good SDA. Now I choose to be a christian and not a specific SDA. I agree with the basic philosophy of the SDA church but some of the things that I do would not be accepted in the church if I was to be totally honest. This has led me to no longer try to act like an SDA and to just be myself and to keep my spiritual life alive through personal study and prayer. Whilst I would love to find a church community and would love an SDA community…I don’t have the hope that I would be accepted as I am.

There is a major problem within the church that is not – or does not seem to be being addressed. Youth seem to be a low priority and where there is an attempt at addressing issues, it is done with what seems to be a lackluster effort. Little attention is paid to detail and it seems that in many cases, those who organise an event have little understanding of what is good and of quality to the youth of today.

It seems that many are out of touch with the issues facing youth. Issues like drug use, sexual promiscuity, alcohol, self-identity, self-worth, social aptitude, life goals, career impact, church attendance, relationships, and the list goes on. These are the things youth crave, now more than ever before. With the quality of role-models at an all time low, with music extolling immorality and the worship of money, youth are almost screaming out for something good and it seems we are not providing them with a tangible, real, usable set of life skills to address these things.

I cannot remember the last time a preacher spoke in earnest about any one of those items listed above. They are fearful of approaching something so ’sensitive’. Jesus approached worse and lived as an example – yet this example is not followed. We have created within the church, a fearful environment where speaking of these things is offensive to the point of a minister worrying for his position if speaks about it. We all like to sit in church on Sabbath and feel good about ourselves, patting our own backs about how we prayed each night that week, or how we might have held a door open for someone once. We sit there and nod in agreement when there is a preacher up there with the guts to say that we should have ash-trays out the front, but when it comes to it, if someone like that turned up at our church, who would talk to them, who would make them welcome?

The Seventh Day Adventist church is one of the most hypocritical churches I have had anything to do with. I have visited many other churches, all of which have made an effort 100% better than what I have observed in SDA churches. We have the Good News, but no-one seems to let in those who actually might need it the most.

The youth of today will be the leaders of tomorrow. What are we doing to help ourselves? What are we doing to encourage their walk with God? Now, more than ever before there is a need to address the youth issue, give it priority, take ownership of the problems we face and have the ability to make a call and stand by it. There is no room for hollow promises. Who out there, in a position of influence, listens to the youth? Actually talks to them and LISTENS to what is said? Who has their finger on the pulse of society and is aware of the lures of sin and puts a plan to fight into action?

I was brought up as an Adventist, however during my late teen years when many of my Adventist friends left the church I found the remaining youth very ‘clicky’ and difficult to develop friendships with. I did continue attending for sometime however, I eventually decided that dealing with the uncomfortable and unfriendly social situations of the church was so unpleasant that i could better spend my saturdays doing something i actually enjoyed. Now I attend church only at christmas due to family pressure and to get into the ‘christmas spirit’. I do still believe that religion is an important thing to have and believe in, although I don’t particularly feel inspired by the idea of church.

Met some great people, had communications with the leadership and been turned off big time. Seems like a political party rather than God’s work. It’s who you know, not what is right if you know what I mean. I have found the people to be genuine and caring mostly and this gives me some hope, but the leadership, including some pastors, have really burnt me.

I like the SDA church, however I believe that many Adventist distinctive beliefs are based on wrong interpretations of Scripture. Many in the SDA Church are aware of this yet to scared to challenge the issue, and worse still, many remain ignorant of this because the leadership seems reluctant to widely educate on these issues and bring the congregational level members up to speed on how the churches beliefs have evolved. Many times my theology lecturers said, ‘No, we don’t teach that anymore.” to stuff that I had learned only a couple of years prior in a sermon or Sabbath School and which ordinary members still propogate. I feel free and happy to worship at another denomination because of what I have come to believe and understand about what the Bibles teaches which I feel does not hold true to how Adventists interpret the Bible. I think the Church would struggle to find meaning and purpose to continue if it were to update its communal understanding of these core individual doctrines.

I personally believe in the doctrines of the SDA church, however because my partner sees the SDA church as a church that is going through the motions and not actually experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit he does not wish to attend, as a result we are looking for another church where he feels the holy spirit moving. He also doesn’t agree with all of the doctrines of the church finding them legalistic in his opinion.

Disillusioned by infighting, politics and power grabbing, running the church like a business and not taking God’s leadership into account, attitude of long term christians who’re rude, self centered and reluctant to see change of the old ways despite no logical Biblical reason for the status quo. Want to see Christians acting like Jesus in their local community and overseas and especially with each other. Tired of hypocrisy! Much easier to sleep in.

Although I was born into a family where we went to church on Saturday’s, at age 15, I stopped going to church when I moved in with my sister who didn’t go to church. Only in the past 3 years, I have decided to go to my local church. I may not have started going to church if there didn’t happen to be a SDA church 5 minutes walk from me.
It took a lot of courage for me to go into the church but the people made it very approachable and made me feel welcome. I hope I can be committed to my “family” through the good and bad times I may experience there.

Have attended SDA church all my life on a weekly basis. Have been heavily involved with music and music coordination. In the last few years I have become negative towards the SDA church. Feel that the church is too steeped in its traditional ways and not prepared to move forward with the times. Many youth are leaving the church due to focusing on irrelevant issues such as what is the correct worship style, jewellery, dress etc., there is a lack of being real, focusing on sevy doctrine instead of the Bible and being too critical and judgmental. My passion is primarily music and worship, and i continually get frustrated at the lack of acceptance of contemporary music in churches (not saying that it should be all contemporary but a balanced mix, however it seems that young people are more accepting of singing hymns than older people are of singing contemporary songs with contemporary instruments). There seems to be ongoing issues with the older generation perceiving contemporary music as being wrong. But who are they to determine what is right or wrong. Isn’t it whats in the heart that matters? Why should we be worrying about this when it isn’t about us its about God!! The church should be also focusing its efforts on young people as they will be the future leaders of the church. I believe in God, but not in religion!

I have grown up in an Adventist family and in a church that I have known very well. When I left that church I haven’t really felt like I wanted to get past the ‘get to know you’ stage of attendance at another church because my job just tires me out people wise and church just feels like another day where I have to ‘be out there’ for people.

When I first became a Christian I was very excited and very driven and achieved a lot in my time. But I was used to the point of exhaustion and (due to my choices) but also to the way the church structure is. And I not long have anything to do with church ministry. I believe one day I may go back but I struggle to think to get involved in the SDA church. Which is a shame as I know it needs it but frankly I’m just too p#$%d off and it seems too hard.

When we used to have a second service run by the youth, it was really vibrant, and lots of young people were coming. People got a lot out of the services as it was a smaller group and everyone connected. When they got rid of the second service because the other service was dieing, all the young people were lost and most of them stopped coming to church cause they didn’t’ get anything out of the other service. Since then I don’t feel like I get anything from the service and I struggle to bring my husband (non believer) to church now cause he doesn’t like the other service whereas he loved the youth one. How am I supposed to bring people to the church when I don’t enjoy going to church anymore?

I was born and raised in the Adventist faith, attended all the Adventist schools, however I never truly knew who God was. It has only been in my late 20’s that I came to discover that a relationship with God is what is needed to find the peace and happiness that I was looking for. I stopped looking at God from my experience with people in the church, I started to have a relationship with him, and in that relationship i discovered that God and i were friends and at times I can tell God that I’m feeling disappointed, or mad at him, or I can say how much I love him, or I can thank him… everything I could share with God all my deepest thoughts and seek him for advice just as I would a best friend. In this experience i have seen God reveal himself to me, and each time he brings me out of a storm my faith is renewed and i am drawn closer to Him. My walk is strengthened simple because I can see what God has done for me.

Plunging Deep

If Christ had started His ministry on Earth in 2009, I don’t think He would have found me at church.

The Adventist identity is splashed across the canvass of my life, but on a wooden pew, I feel like a marionette, a clone, a shadow.

At Submerge::Intro, I found myself catapulted into a community defined by authenticity, profound honesty and trust.  From that platform, I was at liberty to reach for God with the hand of relevance.

Inspired by a heart for `the disconnected`, Submerge::Intro grew out of fertile prayer and a quest for pragmatic truth.  An eclectic team from Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne arranged the mid-November week-end in the Sydney CBD.  Aimed specifically at 25-40 year olds (or thereabouts) it attracted more than 70 people from four states across Australia.  Eighteen were from South Queensland.  The aim?  Letting people go deeper with God, and putting tools in their hands to carry home lost sheep, that is – their friends.

Workshop topics ranged from grace to the authority of the Bible, the changing face of church, and creative prayer.  One group even explored service `on the go`, mingling with the underprivileged at `The Block` in Redfern.

It’s easy to fly home from an event like this, and submerge in a different kind of reality – the relentless pace of work.  Instead, I’ve found myself with the lecture notes on one knee, and my Bible on the other …because depth, with God, is hope.

- Tammy Brinsmead

This short reflection, meant for the Dec ‘09 edition of FOCUS, has found it’s home here…

To learn more about this initiative visit submerge.net.au or to hear some of the talks from the weekend click here.

Participant Survey Results

Note: This report is tailored for those who completed the survey.

Rationale and Method

For many Australians, church isn’t on their ‘to-do’ list. The same trend rings true for many of my generation who may have grown up ‘in the church’ yet are now opting to stay away from their local church on Saturday morning. Why is this? What can we learn from those who’ve left? Is it still important for them to be growing spiritually? These are some of the questions which motivated the creation of a survey with a target audience who fitted the following criteria:

1. Live in Australia (or an Australian currently living overseas)
2. Are between 25 and 40 years of age
3. Have at some stage in their life attended a Seventh-day Adventist church
4. Are currently irregularly attending or aren’t involved or don’t attend a church

The survey was posted online and the invitation to participate shared from friend to friend via email and Facebook between May and July 2009, resulting in 260 complete responses. Though created particularly for those who’ve chosen to disconnect from church, 27% of respondents revealed they attend church every week. Whilst this may indicate a lack of church involvement, the plus side is that we also have a chance to learn from those who stay connected.

The (anonymous) responses in this report are divided into 4 categories according to how often they attend church. Whilst church attendance is not a great indicator of spiritual growth or maturity, it allows us to gain insights into people’s spiritual journey according to their level of commitment in this area.

Quick stats from survey participants

• The majority of responses (68%) came from Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne
• 53% were female and 47% male
• 47% were married; 44% never married; 9% were divorced, remarried or separated
• 93% said that it was important for them to be growing spiritually
• 80% said that they were personally responsible for their spiritual growth

Results

Group 1: Those who attend every week – 69 responses (27%)

The majority of survey participants who attend every week said they did so because they enjoy the experience (67%). Others added that they attend “to grow and help others grow spiritually”, because they are involved and “it’s something I need, to ground me.” 14% felt they should be there.

With busyness and the struggle to prioritise stated as the biggest barriers to spiritual growth, this group still regularly studies the bible (28% daily, 41% weekly) and prays (78% daily). One-fifth of the group share faith with friends and colleagues daily and two-fifths do so every week. However, service was a missing activity for many with 51% either rarely or hardly ever serving those in need.

When asked what the church could do to help them grow more, 38% agreed that a small group bible study with people their age and stage of life would work. Over half were also keen to be involved in service locally and abroad, though it is difficult to know whether these people were already serving. When asked what they would change about the church, they want it to become more accepting, friendly and focused on people’s spiritual journey.

Action – if you are in this group

Have you found a few people to start a small group bible study with? To which needs in your community or overseas could you and others serve? Which of your friends (church goers or not) could you invite to either of these activities?

Group 2: Those who attend once a fortnight – 41 responses (16%)

The main reasons this group gave for attending church this often were because they either enjoyed the experience, felt they should be there, were too tired to attend every week or they wanted to bring their kids to Sabbath School. Daily prayer (68%) and personal bible study was practised more regularly in this group than those who attend occasionally or not at all.

Interestingly, 29% of this group said that they ‘worshipped with and encouraged other believers’ once a week. This data supports the tendency for some of this generation to be more committed to a weekly small group than attending church – which this group does every second week. Busyness and the challenge to make spiritual practices a priority were also the barriers in these people’s lives. Over half of this group rarely or hardly ever serve those in need, but almost as many were interested in serving locally or abroad.

This group may represent some who are attempting to reconnect or stay connected to church. It also may represent some who are slowly disconnecting, with 20% describing their church experience as ‘stalled’ and another 20% ‘dissatisfied’. They wish the church would be more accepting and focused on the spiritual journey of people, and showed interest in social activities (27%) and a small group bible study with people their age and stage of life (27%).

Action – if you are in this group and want to go deeper spiritually

In order to be encouraged in your journey, who could you join with to study the bible? Which friends could you invite to join you in service to your community?  How could you help initiate one of these activities in conjunction with your local church?

Group 3: Those who attend occasionally – 67 responses (26%)

This group of respondents attend either once a month or a few times a year. There were a range of varied reasons for this but not one was prominent. Describing their current experience of church, 31% said it was stalled, 28% said they liked going occasionally, and 24% said they were dissatisfied and wished things would change.

Prayer is a daily activity for many from this group (42%) and about one-fifth engage in bible study and sharing faith with friends monthly. A third hardly ever participate in service, bible study, reading Christian books or sharing faith. The biggest barrier to spiritual growth given was making it a priority.

Like the previous two groups, this group wants the church to become more accepting, friendly and welcoming. Many showed interest in being included in social activities (32%), serving locally (21%) and overseas (20%), and a home bible study group (16%).

Action – if you are in this group and want to grow closer to Jesus

What needs to change in your week so that prayer, bible study and service can happen regularly? Which of your ‘church going’ friends could you ask to help you be involved in some of these activities with other people at your stage of life?

Group 4: Those who have stopped attending – 83 responses (32%)

This group of participants (59% single, 33% married) have either stopped attending or rarely attend. The main reasons were because of bad experiences in the past (31%), irrelevance to their lives (20%) and disagreement with SDA doctrines (15%). Interestingly, when asked to describe their current experience of church, only half of this group said that church was no longer part of their life. Others described it as ‘stalled’ (23%), some enjoy the experience when they go (some now attend church on Sunday) and a handful want to be involved but don’t know how.  75% chose to write about their experience with the church in the survey, describing the reasons they no longer attend and in some cases, why they no longer believe in God.

When asked what they would change about the church and would bring them back to church, the top two responses were more acceptance and relevance. One person answered this way: “I was a very involved person, up-the-front & behind-the-scenes, and not one person has asked me why I no longer attend.” The individual responses reveal that not everyone who no longer attends is bitter, but many have experienced more rules and criticism than grace and acceptance.

It is also important for those in this group to be growing spiritually (83%) though over half said the church couldn’t do anything to help this growth. 35% still pray daily and 19% serve those in need monthly, however 66% hardly ever study the bible and half hardly ever read Christian books or share faith with their friends. Yet a number of this ‘disconnected’ group requested at the end of the survey to be part of service opportunities in their local community (22%), social activities with people of their stage of life (22%) and a service project overseas (16%). At least 12 people requested to be part of a small group bible study.

Action – if you are in this group and want to grow with Jesus

Is it possible that the bad experience you’ve had with church could be used to help your faith grow? If it is important for you to be growing spiritually, is it time to reprioritise daily practises that will keep you growing? What service groups exist where you could commit time to help?

Conclusions

This survey has revealed:

• Even though some 25-40yr olds are disconnecting from church – or have stopped attending – many still want to grow closer to God and serve others
• Whilst some won’t return to church, some said they would return if church was accepting and relevant to their lives
• Some have unrealistic expectations of church, have not taken ownership of their problems and choose to be bitter about the church
• There is a need for churches and individuals to be more accepting and relevant – and keep in touch with those who’re leaving
• The more you go to church, the more likely you are to pray and study the bible, but it won’t necessarily mean that you’ll serve others more
• Those who wish to be connected with others via social activities, small groups and service locally and abroad will need to take some initiative to ensure this happens

Spiritual Growth = Yes but Church = Maybe

Note: This report is tailored for those who attend church.

Rationale and Method

For many Australians, church isn’t on their ‘to-do’ list. The same trend rings true for many of my generation who may have grown up ‘in the church’ yet are now opting to stay away from their local church on Sabbath morning. Why is this? What can we learn from those who’ve left? Is it still important for them to be growing spiritually? These are some of the questions which motivated the creation of a survey with a target audience who fitted the following criteria:

1. Live in Australia (or an Australian currently living overseas)
2. Are between 25 and 40 years of age
3. Have at some stage in their life attended a Seventh-day Adventist church
4. Are currently irregularly attending or aren’t involved or don’t attend a church

The survey was posted online and the invitation to participate shared from friend to friend via email and Facebook between May and July 2009, resulting in 260 complete responses. Though created particularly for those who’ve chosen to disconnect from church, 27% of respondents revealed they attend church every week. Whilst this may indicate a lack of church involvement, the plus side is that we also have a chance to learn from those who stay connected.

The (anonymous) responses in this report are divided into 4 categories according to how often they attend church. Whilst church attendance is not a great indicator of spiritual growth or maturity, it allows us to gain insights into people’s spiritual journey according to their level of commitment in this area.

Quick stats from survey participants

• The majority of responses (68%) came from Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne
• 53% were female and 47% male
• 47% were married; 44% never married; 9% were divorced, remarried or separated
• 93% said that it was important for them to be growing spiritually
• 80% said that they were personally responsible for their spiritual growth

Results

Group 1: Those who attend every week – 69 responses (27%)

The majority of survey participants who attend every week said they did so because they enjoy the experience (67%). Others added that they attend “to grow and help others grow spiritually”, because they are involved and “it’s something I need, to ground me.” 14% felt they should be there.

With busyness and the struggle to prioritise stated as the biggest barriers to spiritual growth, this group still regularly studies the bible (28% daily, 41% weekly) and prays (78% daily). One-fifth of the group share faith with friends and colleagues daily and two-fifths do so every week. However, service was a missing activity for many with 51% either rarely or hardly ever serving those in need.

When asked what the church could do to help them grow more, 38% agreed that a small group bible study with people their age and stage of life would work. Over half were also keen to be involved in service locally and abroad, though it is difficult to know whether these people were already serving. When asked what they would change about the church, they want it to become more accepting, friendly and focused on people’s spiritual journey.

Action

Who in your church is 25-40yrs old? Why not invest some time listening to their stories? How can you help them find a small group or service project?

Group 2: Those who attend once a fortnight – 41 responses (16%)

The main reasons this group gave for attending church this often were because they either enjoyed the experience, felt they should be there, were too tired to attend every week or they wanted to bring their kids to Sabbath School. Daily prayer (68%) and personal bible study was practised more regularly in this group than those who attend occasionally or not at all.

Interestingly, 29% of this group said that they ‘worshipped with and encouraged other believers’ once a week. This data supports the tendency for some of this generation to be more committed to a weekly small group than attending church – which this group does every second week. Busyness and the challenge to make spiritual practices a priority were also the barriers in these people’s lives. Over half of this group rarely or hardly ever serve those in need, but almost as many were interested in serving locally or abroad.

This group may represent some who are attempting to reconnect or stay connected to church. It also may represent some who are slowly disconnecting, with 20% describing their church experience as ‘stalled’ and another 20% ‘dissatisfied’. They wish the church would be more accepting and focused on the spiritual journey of people, and showed interest in social activities (27%) and a small group bible study with people their age and stage of life (27%).

Action

What is your approach to those who don’t come to church every week?  How can you help them practise good spiritual habits? Who could you connect them with who’s at their stage of life and could be a source of encouragement?

Group 3: Those who attend occasionally – 67 responses (26%)

This group of respondents attend either once a month or a few times a year. There were a range of varied reasons for this but not one was prominent. Describing their current experience of church, 31% said it was stalled, 28% said they liked going occasionally, and 24% said they were dissatisfied and wished things would change.

Prayer is a daily activity for many from this group (42%) and about one-fifth engage in bible study and sharing faith with friends monthly. A third hardly ever participate in service, bible study, reading Christian books or sharing faith. The biggest barrier to spiritual growth given was making it a priority.

Like the previous two groups, this group wants the church to become more accepting, friendly and welcoming. Many showed interest in being included in social activities (32%), serving locally (21%) and overseas (20%), and a home bible study group (16%).

Action

Who haven’t you seen at church or your small group of late? Why not give them a call? Are there social groups or service projects you could invite them to be a part of?

Group 4: Those who have stopped attending – 83 responses (32%)

This group of participants (59% single, 33% married) have either stopped attending or rarely attend. The main reasons were because of bad experiences in the past (31%), irrelevance to their lives (20%) and disagreement with SDA doctrines (15%). Interestingly, when asked to describe their current experience of church, only half of this group said that church was no longer part of their life. Others described it as ‘stalled’ (23%), some enjoy the experience when they go (some now attend church on Sunday) and a handful want to be involved but don’t know how.  75% chose to write about their experience with the church in the survey, describing the reasons they no longer attend and in some cases, why they no longer believe in God.

When asked what they would change about the church and would bring them back to church, the top two responses were more acceptance and relevance. One person answered this way: “I was a very involved person, up-the-front & behind-the-scenes, and not one person has asked me why I no longer attend.” The individual responses reveal that not everyone who no longer attends is bitter, but many have experienced more rules and criticism than grace and acceptance.

One thing that we may not have realised, is that it is important for those in this group to be growing spiritually (83%). 35% still pray daily and 19% serve those in need monthly. However 66% hardly ever study the bible and about half hardly ever read Christian books or share faith with their friends. Yet a number of this ‘disconnected’ group requested at the end of the survey to be part of service opportunities in their local community (22%), social activities with people of their stage of life (22%) and a service project overseas (16%). At least 12 people requested to be part of a small group bible study.

Action

Who do you know who has stopped attending church or given up on God? Have you kept in touch and prayed for them? Could you invite them to be part of one of the four activities mentioned above?

Conclusions

This survey has revealed:

• Even though 25-40yr olds are disconnecting from church – or have stopped attending – many still want to grow closer to God and serve others
• Whilst some won’t return to church, some said they would return if church was accepting and relevant to their lives
• Sincerely asking questions about people’s journey’s helps us discover spiritual needs and how to meet them
• Some have unrealistic expectations of church, have not taken ownership of their problems and choose to be bitter about the church
• Both we and our churches need to be more accepting and relevant – and keep in touch with those who’re leaving
• The more you go to church, the more likely you are to pray and study the bible, but it won’t necessarily mean that you’ll serve others more
• We need to try new ways of connecting with those who don’t attend regularly (other than church services) via social activities, small groups and service locally and abroad

Perhaps the question is no longer “Why are they leaving the church?” but “Am I showing acceptance and helping people grow in their daily walk with God?” A battle is raging for the lives of these young people and we have the choice to either watch them leave or get involved and make a difference. It’s time for us to reconnect with those who’ve disconnected, to join the Shepherd as He searches for His lost sheep. It’s time to focus on discipleship instead of only attendance. As the late James Cress said, we can keep them if we care.

A more comprehensive report and the option to view extended responses from survey participants coming very soon.

Time to tame the tiger in you?

Tiger Woods has been getting a serve in the media the past week or so due to his admission of ‘transgressions’ and the increasing number of females jumping on his alleged mistresses’ list. Even Hugh Hefner has chimed in on the discussion stating that Tiger’s actions are no surprise, and that monogamy lasting forever is a wish and marriage is just a nice convenience for raising kids.

Putting Tiger’s actions and Hugh’s opinions aside – what about you? Are you capable of making the mistakes tiger appears to have made? Do you understand enough about yourself – your nature, desires and faults – to live in this world with sexual integrity as a follower of Jesus? I’ve been led to 2 great resources lately which have stretched my understanding and I think you’ll find them very useful – even liberating:

• A book “From Good Man to Valiant Man” by Dr Allen Meyer (particularly for the fellas); and
• A DVD from Mark Gungor called “Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage” (for guys/girls/singles/couples)

Be encouraged today – and why not pray for Tiger and his fam. Our failings give an opportunity to receive and share His mercy.

Submerge::INTRO participants go deep

“My eyes have been opened. I want to go deeper. For real.” This was a response to Submerge::INTRO, a new ministry initiaitve for 25-40 year olds (or thereabouts). The event was held on November 13-15 at Rydges World Square in Sydney’s CBD with the twofold purpose of helping participants go deeper with God and share their faith with their friends. Over 70 people came from QLD, NSW, VIC and WA and participated in worship and workshops, shared their testimonies, served at ‘The Block’ in Redfern and mixed with others from a similar stage of life.

Submerge::INTRO was organised by a team from Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne who were intentional about making the weekend authentic and relevant. They selected workshop topics and presenters who would be able to help participants find key tools to taking the next step in their journey, whether they felt close to or far from God. Those who attended the weekend reported that they had found tools and the majority indicated they would definitely be back if such an event happened again.

The final gathering saw many people coming forward during a special prayer time to write the names of their disconnected from church and/or God friends on a canvas. As hoped, there is now conversation about broadening the content of future events to reach people exploring Christianity. While participants said they valued the opportunity to go deeper with God personally, they also said they would feel comfortable inviting their ‘disconnected’ friends to such a place and would therefore like to.

This feedback was a highlight for Submerge::INTRO organisers. “Our generation needs to go deeper with God and realise that He wants to use us to bring our friends and colleagues to Him,” said Mark Baines. “This isn’t something that only happens over a weekend event though. It’s a daily intention on our part and expectation in faith from God.”

Plans are now underway to recreate the Submerge website as a forum for resourcing spiritual growth and blogging. To keep up-to-date with developments, see submerge.net.au.

Photo: Ben Beaden

Your thoughts?

Two types of voices command your attention today. Negative ones fill your mind with doubt, bitterness, and fear. Positive ones purvey hope and strength. Which ones will you choose to heed? You have a choice, you know. “We take every thought captive so that it is obedient to Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:5 God’s Word).

Do you let anyone who knocks on your door enter your house? Don’t let every thought that surfaces dwell in your mind. Take it captive…make it obey Jesus. If it refuses, don’t think it.

Negative thoughts never strengthen you. How many times have you cleared a traffic jam with your grumbles? Does groaning about bills make them disappear? Why moan about your aches and pains, problems and tasks?

“Be careful what you think, because your thoughts run you life” (Proverbs 4:23 NCV).

These words are a ‘daylifter’ from the pages of Every Day Deserves a Chance by Max Lucado.

Ignorance, solutions and you

A worldwide survey was conducted by the UN*. The only question asked was: ‘Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?’ The survey was a huge failure;

In Africa they didn’t know what ‘food’ meant;

In India they didn’t know what ‘honest’ meant;

In Europe they didn’t know what ’shortage’ meant;

In China they didn’t know what ‘opinion’ meant;

In the Middle East they didn’t know what ’solution’ meant;

In South America they didn’t know what ‘please’ meant;

And in the USA they didn’t know what ‘the rest of the world’ meant!

In spite of the tongue in cheek generalisations here, the question should be asked about what we don’t know in Australia. Do we know what ’service’ or ’sacrifice’ mean? More to the point, is it a priority in our churches and in our lives? I must confess, I know about service and talk about service – but don’t serve very much. I’m talking about getting-my-hands-dirty-to-help-the-needy or mixing-with-uncomfortable-people kind of service. Last Saturday afternoon I joined ten others and helped sort & pack boxes for Operation Christmas Child. All of us loved it – Sabbath was a blessing – we felt like we gave in a small way to the life of a child in need in some part of the world. These are kids who, because of where they’re born, have to deal with poor sanitation, education, medication and nutrition.

The survey I’m still dissecting shows that more than 59% of those who’re disconnected from church and 50% of those who attend every week either ‘rarely’ or ‘hardly ever’ serve their community. It can be overwhelming to know where to start when there are so many issues bigger than us and so many charities vying for our attention and our dollars. But try this – take a browse around the Global Poverty Project and get to a presentation by Hugh Evans if you can. Then find an existing charity/organisation (this could even be your local church) and offer your assistance. Not your $ – your time. If you can’t find an opportunity – look around you – there’s always people in need. And like exercise, you’ll feel better and more importantly will have done what God asks of you (Isaiah 58/Matt 25:31ff).

“Let us develop a kind of dangerous unselfishness.” From the last public speech of Martin Luther King Jr.

* From an email – so very possibly not legit.

Be Real

It’s been boom time for SDA church members the past few weeks here in Brisbane. Last week was ‘Big Camp’ where thousands gathered to listen and meet and worship and eat. A couple of weeks ago the same campground saw 650 or so gather from around the SPD for a new event called Festival of Mission (FoM).

I must admit that when I first heard about the FoM I was skeptical. Wouldn’t such a gathering cost a lot of  money? Was it funded from tithes and offerings? Why was such an event even necessary? If the purpose was encouragement and nurture, couldn’t people attend the Brissy Big Camp that began only a few days later?! My issues aside, when it became clear that locals (non-delegates) could attend the night meetings I invited the crew from the 2 small groups I’m involved with to come and listen.

What we encountered were speakers who were not afraid to be real. They were also encouraging, enlightening, challenging and honest. This was true for the FoM and Big Camp. Jose Rojas – the little smiling Mexican power preacher – wasn’t afraid to confront destructive behaviour and attitudes in the church, particularly towards young people or people who are different. Roscoe Howard addressed issues like depression and pornography head on, calling for us to face our problem and get help and healing from God (and this was in the ‘Senior tent’!). It’s encouraging to see these approaches and hear these topics addressed.

The reality is that events such as FoM and Big Camp can blur reality a little. They give the impression that the church is still going strong – or even growing, because of the number of people who come. Depending on who you talk to however, SDA church membership in Australia is almost stopped or on the decline. I wonder what would happen if our big events could be tweaked a little so that people not connected to a local church could come and be inspired by the speakers and meet the people. Sure, it’s always a challenge to describe Big Camp to people (ah, it’s kinda like a religious meeting in a big Circus tent minus the….), but don’t we all feel closer to Jesus after such events? Surely those outside of our churches should be given an opportunity to be inspired and challenged by Jesus also.

In the meantime, perhaps we can share the talks via mp3 with our friends – here’s a link to Herb Larsen’s talks from 2006.

Identity revisited

Last week I got to hang with the students and staff at Kempsey Adventist School (really great people – all of them – no seriously!). The theme for their week of worship (WOW) was Identity – and whilst I was speaking to the students, reality was that I was speaking to the staff and myself as well. Here’s a few thoughts from the week for you to chew on:

Where do you get your identity from? What brings you real happiness (old school word = joy)?

Today we’re flooded with pushy marketing that tells us we won’t be happy or complete until we have enough stuff or look a certain way or have a certain reputation. I’m tired of this onslaught. Satan wants to mess us up and bring us down, and when I’ve swallowed these lies it’s only brought temporary satisfaction. Here’s a super brief summary of the areas we get identity from, Satan’s deception and Jesus’ alternative:

Make sense? It’s not a comprehensive overview, but hopefully basic enough for you to understand. Oh, by the way, COG = child of God. That’s what you are – a prince or princess of God. Fulfilling identity comes from being His child, experiencing His love, being forgiven and serving others. Let’s open our eyes to who we really are – and show the world what lasting difference this makes.